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Executive Committee Meeting Minutes |
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Thursday September 28 |
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PMO |
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Heather VanCura |
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Executive Committee |
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ARM - Rod Crawford - present Azul Systems - Simon Ritter, Matt Schuetz - present Credit Suisse - Gary Field - present Eclipse - Mike Milinkovich - present Fujitsu - Mike DeNicola, Kenji Kazumura - present Gemalto - Thomas Lampart - present Goldman Sachs - Jacke Haynes, Vlladimir Zakharov - present Ivar Grimstad - present Hazelcast - Enes Akar - present HPE - Jeff Gragg - present IBM - Tim Ellison - present Intel - Vinay Awasthi - present JetBrains - Andrey Cheptsov - present Werner Keil - present London Java Community - Martijn Verburg - present MicroDoc - Hendrik Hoefer - present NXP - Maulin Patel - present Oracle - Anish Karmarkar, Calinel Pasteanu, Brian Goetz, Georges Saab - present Red Hat - not present SAP - Volker Simonis - present Software AG - Prasad Yendluri - present SouJava - Bruno Souza - present Tomitribe - David Blevins, Amelia Eiras - present Twitter - Tony Printezis - present V2COM - Leonardo Lima - present Total attendance: 24 of 25 voting members |
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Since 75% of the EC's voting members were present, the EC was quorate for this session |
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Friay September 29 |
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PMO |
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Heather VanCura |
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Executive Committee |
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ARM - Rod Crawford - present Azul Systems - Simon Ritter, Matt Schuetz - present Credit Suisse - Gary Field - present Eclipse - Mike Milinkovich - present Fujitsu - Mike DeNicola, Kenji Kazumura - present Gemalto - Thomas Lampart - present Goldman Sachs - Jacke Haynes, Vlladimir Zakharov - present Ivar Grimstad - present Hazelcast - Enes Akar - present HPE - Jeff Gragg - present IBM - Tim Ellison - present Intel - Vinay Awasthi - present JetBrains - Andrey Cheptsov - present Werner Keil - present London Java Community - Martijn Verburg - present MicroDoc - Hendrik Hoefer - present NXP - Maulin Patel - present Oracle - Anish Karmarkar, Calinel Pasteanu, Will Lyons - present Red Hat - Mark Little - present SAP - Volker Simonis - present Software AG - Prasad Yendluri - present SouJava - Bruno Souza - present Tomitribe - David Blevins, Amelia Eiras - present Twitter - Tony Printezis - present V2COM - Leonardo Lima - present Total attendance: 25 of 25 voting members |
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Since 75% of the EC's voting members were present, the EC was quorate for this session |
EC Standing Rules state the following penalties for non-attendance at EC meetings (note that those who participate in face-to-face meetings by phone are officially counted as absent):
Missing two meetings in a row results in a loss of voting privileges until two consecutive meetings have been attended.
Missing five meetings in a row, or missing two-thirds of the meetings in any consecutive 12-month period results in loss of the EC seat.
There
were no changes in voting status as a result of this meeting.
Andrey Cheptsov is a new alternate for JetBrains. Enes Akar is a new alternate for Hazelcast. Steve Dohrmann is the new representative for Intel. Jeff Gragg is a new alternate for HPE.
Heather presented the usual EC stats (see the presentation for details).
Heather reviewed the action items.We spent time discussing the pre-final spec license action item. Georges to inquire about wording with Oracle legal and Mike to follow up with Eclipse legal team about possible changes to wording in their license. Heather will then schedule a follow up meeting to discuss.
Heather presented the dates and events for the 2017 JCP EC Elections (see the PMO presentation for details).
Heather presented final dates for the 2018 JCP EC Meeting calendar.(see the PMO presentation for details). Twitter will host the third face to face meeting of the year again in 2018.
Heather gave an update on the 2017 Membership Drive and Renewals effort (see the presentation for details).
Martijn Verburg gave an overview of the Adopt OpenJDK build farm. Volker asked if complete certification. Martijn stated they would, but certified binaries is the goal, not branding. Once they pass the TCK, they will start public announcements. Mike Milinkovich commended the amazing work and Martijn thanked IBM and Oracle for their support.
Brian Brian Goetz provided an update on the submission of JSR 383, Java 18.3, and the open ballot, and formation of the Expert Group. Brian stated that they plan to submit Java 18.9 JSR in the next few weeks. JSR 383, Java 18.3 is now 3 months into the development cycle, they intend to wrap up in December and release in March 2018. Discussions will continue on the OpenJDK Mailing list. Werner asked about the numbering of the versions. Brian explained other projects have similar version numbering, such as Ubuntu. Tony asked about what happens if there is a delay in the release. Brian explained there are options to back out features or ship the same bits as the previous release. Volker asked about the availability of the TCK. Georges explained that the reality is the TCK is not developed before the language, but Oracle will try to make it available sooner. The TCK cannot be finalized until the spec is finished. Volker asked about making the TCK an open project. Brian stated we want to get there as quickly as we can. Tim asked about the process for binding content to a release. Brian replied that the JEP process is used to bind content to a release. There is visibility to JEPs in candidate state. The OpenJDK CSR process is for things too small for a JEP but has spec impact. They will be marked as such and picked up by build process. CSR is pre-requisite to code. Tim stated that he does not have any concern, he is just looking for clarity. Mike stated that continuous updates give Brian explained that they are asking for more rapid responses and are planning on making drafts available early and often. Volker commented about fewer component JSRs and Brian responded that JEPs are big to begin with and take time to review. Bruno commented that everyone loves the plan for more frequent releases, but is there enough time. Brian stated that we are removing arbitrary delays but the development style remains the same. Hendrik commented that more releases is a great thing, but what is commitment to Java versions being compatible. Brian stated this problem already exists with Early Access builds off of the branch available - will stay in mainline longer before EA, also revamped deprecations policy in Java 9 with guidelines and mechanisms in place to address. Bruno comments it is a great achievement to advocate developers to use the latest version. Brian reinforced that developers adopt more quickly than companies, and they are trying to balance the tension between the two towards moving faster. Mike commented that not every release is an LTS release. Brian responded that they are reluctant to motivate release targets to or from LTS release, but instead encourage a process of whether the feature is ready. Tony asked for clarity of LTS release. Brian stated that Oracle is still in process of deciding support, but anyone can offer LTS for any release. Volker asked about project lead changes, for example, Red Hat is lead for JDK 7 now. Brian responded that in the past Oracle has done this, and may do it again in the future. Bruno asked if the JCP can support the Java SE releases; Brain responded they are happy with the JCP and we will cover upcoming changes in the JCP.Next discussion. Amelia commented that some things still appear private, and Brian stated that they are opening more and going public earlier and more often, and the community can pick up the releases and spread the word. Georges confirmed that they are trying to make communication clear. Closed commercial features are being pushed to OpenJDK, and the response has been that this takes uncertainty about investing more in Java. David asked about library maintainers and contacts, and Brain provided examples such as support and adoption on social media for Java 9 using the hashtag #worksfineonJDK9 has been very positive. Jackie asked how companies trying to do auto upgrades can do so more quickly. Brian explained that containers make it easier that it has been in the past. Testing happens on the container and makes it easier to automate compliance. Georges added that the use of private/internal APIs is a pain point now but it will be less so in the future - it is set up to be better.
Heather povided a summary of the Maintenance Review planned for JSR 364, adding more emphasis on collaboration and streamlining the process to help JSRs move more quickly through the process. The MR is planned to start this week and Heather asked for feedback. EC Members suggested the minimum review period days to 14 instead or 15 and Heather confirmed she would make that change to the MR. (See the presentation for details).
Leonardo Lima gave an update on the Java ME working group (See the presentation for details). Calinel commented about the lack of adoption of Java ME 8 and emphasized that in order for the community to move Java ME forward, the technology needs more support from members. For example, V2COM is using Java 3. Thomas commented that Java SE may scale down in the future, and Maulin commented on the business model for Java ME not being attractive. Leonardo explained that during JavaOne, we will focus on attracting community interest and support for new Java ME related projects.
Heather gave an update on planned JCP activities around JavaOne (see the presentation for details).
Remy gave an update from the Twitter Open Source office. See presentation for details.
Heather and Theresa Ngyuen summarized the latest meeting of the EC Communications Working Group (see presentation for details). Doodle poll in progress will select new meeting time.
Will Lyons presented an update on plans for Java EE 8 (see presentation for details).Maulin asked about other Java EE JSRs that are not led by Oracle. Will responded that Oracle JSRs would go first and then other JSRs led by IBM and Red Hat would be integrated at another time. Mark commented that it would be bad form to move projects from Apache to Eclipse. Will stated that the EE4J project is looking for sponsors and community input as they develop a spec process. Simon asked about leaving the name as Java EE. Will responded that it is an Oracle trademark issue, and that it will become an Eclipse project. Volker asked about whether names of existing JSRs would changed , and Will stated that naming at the individual API level will be discussed. Bruno raised concern that Java EE may not be governed by the JCP anymore, and this is more worrisome that the name. Amelia asked how smaller companies will be able to complete with big companies without the JCP and how we can move forward. Mike commented that the spec process will defined and recommended companies to get engaged. Will responded that it would be a more level playing field where no vendor has a particular position. Mike commented that Eclipse does not acquire rights to code. Amelia commented that the community has to be behind it and Oracle has done a great job with the JCP. Tim asked for clarity around Java EE technologies being contributed that are not part of Java EE 8, such as JCACHE. Will could not comment on that at this time. Oracle will not relicense the specs under an open source license, but new specs can be created by referencing existing specifications, and functionality can be validated by the TCKs. Mike commented that open source licenses are not necessarily good licenses for specs. Hendrik asked if all Java EE JSRs would move out of the JCP and Prasad asked if there was a date to shut down the JCP. Will responded that Oracle is not shutting down the JCP, and existing Java EE specs and maintenance would continue through the JCP, but Oracle does not expect to file new JSRs for Java EE related technologies. Leo commented that he did not understand why it sounds like Oracle is emptying the JCP. Will responded that the scope of this discussion is around Java EE. Oracle plans to use the JCP for Java SE, and that donating Java EE 8 to Eclipse and defining a development process is a healthy evolution. Bruno commented that there is a perception for the JCP is an Oracle organization, and he never thought Oracle would move in this direction, so we have doubts but this is the purpose to move things forward. Mark commented that a move out of the JCP can evolve to be focus for new efforts. Heather concluded the discussion with comments that we will continue to discuss the impacts on the JCP in future EC meetings.
Andres Almiray gave a status update on JSR 377 (see the presentation for details). Bruno asked if Andres was talking to IDE vendors. Andres responded that we had, but he needed to follow up again to get in touch with JavaFX team, Eclipse and IntelliJ. Heather offered to help make introductions as needed. Martijn commented that you cannot force a standard on a community that doesn't want it. Werner asked if Andres had looked at the proposed Configuration API, JSR 382. Andres responded that he would.
Bruno and Martijn led a discussion on the Java User Group perceptions of what is happening in the community as we prepare for the week at JavaOne 2017 and the Java Champions Summit later in the day. Bruno commented that Oracle is giving the community everything we have been asking for. Questions arise around Oracle's motivations for donating technologies, whether the JCP is coming to an end, if the adoption programs will continue, why there is less promotion around the release of Java SE 9. There is confusion about renaming Java EE to EE4J. Martijn commented that most developers expect to see the number of technologies in EE4J to dramatically reduce, and we need to set expectations that not all pieces will continue to move forward. Bruno commented that there was nothing negative around the faster release cycles and that this is a crucial moment for the JCP in terms of changes and impact Heather commented that we should focus on preparing for discussion of status at this time and discuss future impact on the JCP as part of a separate agenda item at an upcoming EC Meeting. Mike DeNicola commented that we have heard from Oracle executives about their intentions moving forward, but he would like to hear from Red Hat and IBM, their perspectives and intentions moving forward. Heather agreed to schedule updates at a future EC Meeting. David commented that the community needs to get involved and Bruno emphasized that we need their help moving forward.
Heather reminded EC members of plans for JavaOne in the following week and key dates, as well as logistics for the Java Champions panel.
Heather invited EC Members to attend the events and then thanked Twitter for their hospitality and the meeting adjourned.
November 7 2017, teleconference, 8:00 - 10:00 am PST.
